New bass project

[spellcaster]

I finally decided to go ahead with this, so this is the unveiling. I traded my original CV DuoSonic neck, a Tele bridge, and a pair of new no-name humbuckers for it.

This is an MIJ clone of a Rickenbacker 4001. The neck's straight, the trussrod works, and the tuners are fine, and not nearly as corroded as I thought. The body's basically intact although it appears that someone has filled the neck pickup rout. There's a bridge pickup which my multimeter says is working, measuring 6.55K. The bridge is all there, a bit corroded, but should clean up okay. And, it has the jack and jackplate, and the strap buttons.

Basically, I'll need a pickguard, pots, and strings. The finish on the neck is quite nice, with mother of pearl inlays and binding, so the body is the main candidate for new paint.

I'm not sure if I'll tackle this immediately, and I'll take a few days to assess it. Looks like a fun project though.

[etechstan]

Waiting for this. That body is crying to be painted!

[spellcaster]

I've been doing a bit of research trying to determine exactly what's needed to make it complete. That large rout for the bridge pickup should have a rectangular chrome surround with a shadowmask around the pickup and a chrome cover over top. If this was a real Ric, I'd spend the money to acquire the correct parts, but they'd cost over 200.00. Since this is a copy, I'll manufacture the surround and shadowmask, and probably buy a P Bass or Telecaster Bass pickup cover. The missing neck pickup would cost over 200.00 for a genuine Ric pickup, so I'll find something similar that's more cost effective. Since the neck pickup rout's been filled, I can rout the correct size for whatever pickup I decide on. And, a real Ric pickguard (which might or might not fit) would cost about 50.00 shipped, so I'll manufacture one. It would be nice to have a tracing of a real Ric pickguard. If anybody's in a position to help out and mail me a tracing, I'd Paypal you ten bucks for it. There's nothing impossible to do here, but it'll take a bit of time. I may make the pickup surround and pickguard in the meantime (I have WBW and BWB sheets of pickguard material on hand), but the routing and painting will have to wait until the weather's nice enough to work out on the deck. And, I'll need to be back to work before I can buy a pickup cover and the neck pickup. Any suggestions you have would be welcome.

[spellcaster]

Okay, I got bored and decided to eyeball a pickguard template from photos and make a guard for it. iI removed the strings from the tuners and decided to unscrew the bridge rather than try to weasel the strings out of it. This is where it gets interesting.

When I got looking closely, it was apparent that this bridge didn't originate on this bass. It's definitely a Ric-style tailpiece, and the guy I traded with said he thinks it may be the real deal, but....in place of whatever saddles it originally had, there's an ABR-style bridge bar screwed down into holes that had been drilled into the tailpiece.



I had to remove one of those screws and loosen the other to swing the bridge bar out of the way.....Two of the tailpiece mounting screws are "conveniently" located right under the bridge bar. I had a horrible time getting the allen-key heads to budge, but eventually, with some WD-40 and the wrench that came with my Steinberger tuners, I was able to move the bridge bar. In addition to a washer covering the oversize hole in the bridge bar, there's a second washer on the underside, which appears to be a one-time-only bridge bar height adjustment.



You can see the two pinholes drilled above and outside the recess that the bridge original to that tailpiece was supposed to sit. And, at the outside of the recessed area, flanking the three front mounting screw holes, there are holes designed to accomodate the original bridge bar, which presumably had threaded studs and thumbwheels to adjust the height.

I'm a bit stymied, not knowing if the modifications were done to solve a chronic intonation issue.....The current bridge puts the saddles quite a bit further back than the original would have been able to. Or, is this entirely the wrong bridge, cobbled together to work on a body it wasn't designed for?

Even with the bridge in place, you could see a "trough" about 1/2" wide in front of the bridge that obviously was crudely done by some FIY modder. With the tailpiece removed, you can see that it's a lot bigger. I'm having trouble imagining what this was done for.......



My plan is to try and keep the cost down on this project. I could buy a reproduction Ric bridge/tailpiece on eBay for about 75.00 shipped, but can't justify it now. If this bridge turns into an issue, I'll have to upgrade it down the road. In the meantime, I think I'll fill the big ugly rout and do minimal dremeling to accomodate the recess in the tailpiece.



So, there's some surprises.....as usual. Sure didn't take this one long to turn into a can of worms, eh?

[etechstan]

Wow, couldn't they all be simple but effective like Leo designed in his basses?

[spellcaster]

This probably was fairly well engineered in the begining, but someone obviously thought they could improve on the design, lol. I'm not sure how faithful this clone is to the original German design either.

[spellcaster]

Making a template has taken hours......searching through hordes on online pictures (thank goodness these things are common enough for there to be lots of photos!) and taking painstaking measurements, converting them to scale, etc. I think what I have here is a reasonably good facsimile of a 4001 guard but there have been neccesary compromises due to differences in the neck pocket, the routs, hardware positions and screw positions. Anyway, it's done.....on paper.

It's too late tonight to start cutting it out, but tomorrow I'll rough cut it from WBW sheet pickguard, fine-sanding with a benchtop belt sander to fine-tune the shape and fit, and then spend (inevitably) hours hand-beveling the 30 degree edge bevel.



I'm humming and hawing about the second pickup. I couldn't afford to buy one now anyway, but I had planned to leave that part of the pickguard blank for now and cut it in after eventually selecting the right thing and buying it. Now.....I'm not so sure.....

There's something really weird about the neck pocket/neck tenon arrangement on this bass. According to the guy I got it from, somebody's filled the neck pickup rout. However ...When you look at the picture you can see what looks vaguely like a pickup rout, but it's right against the neck pocket. Given how little of the neck actually sits in the neck pocket...about 3/4"....and the fact that only two of the neckplate screws actually screw into the neck, it's hard to believe that there was ever a neck pickup there. Further, there appears to be part of a neck tenon left on the body side of the alleged pickup rout. (you can actually see the bevelled channel angling down to adjust the truss rod- which is weird.....the truss rod's accessible at the headstock too). I'm guessing that this originally was a set neck, the neck joint failed when the pickup rout destroyed the integrity of the neck tenon, and that's why there's a neck plate on the back. Can you say "clusterfxxk"? The deeper I get into this, the skunkier it gets.....



Long story short, I'm questioning whether I should forego installing a neck pickup and turn this into "Rick-squire" with just a bridge pickup. The main reason I'd like to know now is so I can plan whether to space the controls for one volume/one tone, or two volumes/two tones. Decisions, decisions....Maybe this will look better in the morning.

[spellcaster]

I spent a couple of hours this morning revising the pickguard template. Funny how stuff looks okay when you're tired but fresh eyes in the morning lets you see stuff that wasn't visible before. I made the pickguard and it turned out not bad. This is the first time I'd tried this pickguard material and, although it's 3 ply, I was amazed how much thinner it is than a standard Fender guard. (Now I know why it was so cheap!) It looks alright, but I decided to forego the beveled edge. Mounting holes are drilled, and after a little more finesse to the edges with some #600 grit, I'll polish it and mount it.




After the guard's mounted, I think I'll put this aside till my next days off. With any luck weatherwise, I'll be able to work on the deck and get the nasty bridge rout filled. After that, I can start prepping the body for paint.

I'm still unsure what color I want. It definitely won't be black, but I'll want a reasonably dark shade to contrast with the pickguard and the faux binding I'm going to do to cover the joint where the top veneer is glued on. The face of the headstock has also been painted, fairly sloppily, so I'll be stripping it. Still not sure whether I'll leave it natural with an amber tinted clear coat or paint it to match the body.

[zontar]

Cool, it looks like fun, and it should be a nice looking bass when you're done.
And a good sounding one too.

I'll be keeping an eye n this thread.

[spellcaster]

I couldn't stay away from this thing. Almost as soon as I'd cleaned up and put the tools away, i've gotten back into it.

I've decided that I will do a neck pickup. Rearching Ric 4001 pickguards, I found a reference to a "one inch spacing between the neck and the pickup cutout on pre-73's". I'm thinking that if I observe that 1" stipulation, I'll be routing away about 5/16" of the plugged rout, and (guessing, depending on the pickup) about another 5/16" into the neck tenon, which I don't think will drastically weaken things.

The pickup I've decided to use (sticking with my no-money-for-new-parts philosophy) is the one I pulled out of the bridge of my small tele bass when I upgraded it to the violin bass pickup. The original is an Artec strat rail pickup which I modified to fit the Tele by chopping off the ears, and fastening a brass bottom plate to that was threaded for three machine screws in the tele fashion. This mounting method will work fine on the bass as well. The Artec pickup, in full humbucking mode is 10.6K, but a single coil measures 5.5. Since the bridge pickup (which I confirmed last night is a real Ric unit) is 6.55K, the single coil mode is more likely to match the output level and voicing of the bridge pickup.



This has me revising my wiring plans. A stock 4001 has individual volume and tone controls for each pickup. I definitely want to retain the four control appearance, but I think my needs are better served by have individual pickup volume controls with their outputs running to the pickup switch. The third control will be a master tone pot connected directly to the positive terminal of the output jack, and the fourth control will be a variable coil split for the Artec neck pickup, so I can get full-on humbucker, or dial it back to any degree of single-coil operation. Hopefully I can scare up enough pots in my parts drawer to do this. I'm less hopeful that I'll find an LP-style pickup switch.....Used my last good one for the MIJ solidbody I just restored. I may have to use a DPDT toggle which will give an either/or pickup selection, as a stop-gap. If so, I'll break down and spend the ten bucks to order the right switch and upgrade it later.

At the moment, I'm laying out the controls....Again, one of those things that'll take lots of looking at pictures online, measuring, converting scale, etc. This would be so much easier (and more expensive) to do if I had a genuine Rix pickguard. I've taped out the dimensions of the body rout so I'll know what I have to work with.....



As luck would have it, I had only two of the black knobs with silver caps that I'd hoped to use, as they;re really quite authentic looking. For now (and assuming I can find enough pots to hang them on) I'll probably have to use black Strat knobs or Fender amp knobs. It would cost about 22.00 including shipping to buy four Ric knobs, but it renains to be seen whether it'll be worth it.

[spellcaster]

I found some pots, although they're 500K, which might be a little bright. Looks like I'll have to order four 250K pots and an LP right-angle switch. I really don't like those Strat knobs.....'way too big for one thing, so I guess I'll have to order the right ones. I believe I'm done for the day now. Mounting the neck pickup will involve dremeling the pickguard and routing the body, so it won't happen till I get a break in the weather and can work on the deck. This is where I really envy you guys that live where the weather's more moderate.

I realized that I still have to fabricate the shadowmask and surround for the bridge pickup, so I guess there's still one more step that I can work on inside, perhaps one night this week or next weekend.

It's starting to look a little more like it should......

[zontar]

Looking good.
Want to build me one?

[spellcaster]

Thanks, zontar. I don't feel qualified to take on builds for other people but I love being asked. To me, it's a compliment of the highest order, and makes me feel great.

I talked to the bodyman at work today about painting my Ric clone. Sounds like it's not a problem.....If I take it to him sanded and prepped, he'll spray it for 25.00. The icing on the cake is that we have almost 300 left-over batches of paint from cars he's done, and the boss told me to just use whatever I want, so there's no material charges. The bodyman would like to shoot it in single-stage, but I have a feeling it needs to be base/clear to have good durability. I'll need to see what colors we have on hand, I guess.

[spellcaster]

I thought about it overnight and decided that I needed to spend some dough and make this right. I don't think there's any way that original bridge will ever be satisfactory, and I needed some cosmetics to complete the project. So......

Bridge


Knobs


Pickup switch


Chrome ring for neck pickup


I'm still trying to decide what to do about the bridge pickup surround, mask, and cover. I may still be able to make something, but if not I've found aftermarket parts for about half the price of Rickenbacker.

My intentions to spend no dough were good, but my urge to build it right was stronger.

[etechstan]

I am really waiting for this one!

[die Bullen]

I'm waiting to see that paint job!

[spellcaster]

I'm still trying to decide on color. My instincts are telling me tio go with something that's a production color for a 4001 rather than something unconventional. Don't want black or mapleglo which seem to be the most common. I keep coming back to red, but still not sure.

I woke up this morning with that familiar old feeling I used to get in the bad old days...."what did I do, and why the heck did I spend money I don't have?" I probably shouldn't have bought those parts but at the time, it seemed like the right thing. The consolation is that at least in this case I'll have something to show for it.

I am kind of excited....It's been a while since I travelled this road....stopping at the mailbox each day to see what eBay parts have just arrived.....Kind of like Christmas, lol. And, I've wanted another Ric style bass for a while, and this will scratch the itch without dropping a couple of grand. This project should still come in under 300.00 including the parts I traded for the basket case, the pickup and parts out of my parts drawer, the eBay parts, and the paint.

My only concern is that I'm being leaned on a bit to get back to that Les Paul Junior again (which I've been walking around because it's such a daunting job). I know that when I get going on the bass, I won't want to do anything else.

[spellcaster]

This picture's been on my computer desktop for the last couple of days. I'm liking this color. What do you think?

[die Bullen]

I say too red- but that is just me. Are you going to rout that body for binding?

[spellcaster]

I've never done binding before and I don't think this is the right one to practice on. I need to do something, as there's a very visible seam on the edge where the top veneer is attached, though. I think I'll do a faux single binding on this one, similar to what I did to my double bound Esquire.

[etechstan]

A Ric needs binding

[spellcaster]

I agree, Stan. When you look at this 4003S 8 string, it really seems like something's missing.

[spellcaster]

I spent several hours today looking at hardware trying to devise a suitable substitute for the Ric bridge cover and surround without success. In for a penny....in for a pound.....I ordered the parts.







So, at this point, I've got everything it'll take to finish this. Now all I need is a good weather day to work out on the deck so I can rout in the neck pickup and fill the rout in front of the bridge.

[die Bullen]

looks like pretty darn nice HW

[spellcaster]

I just received the first of the parts I ordered. The Ric-style bridge is actually an Allparts piece, and I'm quite happy with the it....It's faithful to the Ric design and seems quite well-made with nice plating.



I haven't actually had it in place yet, but it appears that the mute on the front end covers that hole in front of the existing bridge. Something I missed when I worked on this a while ago is that the old bridge has a raw edge and I'm guessing that it had a mute at one time that somebody sawed off....Weird...

It's difficult for me to believe that the crude rout is the way it came from the factory, and I'm thinking that somebody hacked a smaller rout open for what ever reason. There are some protuding elements on the underside of the bridge that I need to make provision for though......



As you can see, the area under the mute requires a shallow recess but the mute fastens with nuts on the bottom that stick 'way out. And, the bridge recesses into the bridgeplate substantially, and the threadeded inserts that hold the bridge will protude beyond that. So I'm contemplating whether to fill that rout and then try to tastefully remove only as mych material as needed.....or, just go with what;s there. I'll know for sure after dropping it into place, but it appears the outer perimeter is all properly supported around the hole.

My biggest trauma right now is intonation. That original bridge modification must have been done for a reason, and from what I can see, thre new bridge will locate where the original saddles were....not where that FIYer bridge was screwed down , further back. Again, mounting it will tell the tale.

One of the things I found interesting about the new bridge is that it came with the E and A saddles mounted in reverse, much like you might do on a Tune-o-Matic to get the extra saddles travel needed.

I've spent many hours lately reading about Ric basses hoping to glean bits of knowledge that'll help me with this build. One thing I'd nver heard before is that they're 33 or 33 1/4" scale. I'd always assumed a Ric was a fullsize bass. Another interesting gem of information. Rickenbacker basses use Ric six element guitar pickups. According to John Hall of Rickenbacker, the six elements/four string alignment is a non-issue and the creation of an appropriate magnetic field is what's important.

I'm beginning to suspect I got some bad info from the source online that confirmed that my bass has a real Ric pickup, as mine is obviously four elements. Unless there's a different bass pickup used in models other than 4001 and 4003...... This may mean that I'm going to encounter some compatability issues when I get my bridge pickup hardware. I'm reasonably confident that I'll be able to use the chrome cover and bezel, but I may not be able to use the base plate. Time will tell.....

I'm going put the new bridge plate on this weekend, but likely won't go too much further till I receve the rest of the hardware, hopefully in the next week or two.

[spellcaster]

I just started taking the strings off to change bridgeplates and found something that made me laugh.

If I needed confirmation that an FIYer worked on this bass, I just found it.

Having trouble getting a good closeup of this, but you get the idea. This is the tuner end of the G string

[spellcaster]

When I screwed the new bridge down to the original mounting holes, it doesn't even sit quite straight, and will need to have four of the five holes dowelled closed and redrilled to straighten it. It's already easy to see that the new bridge won't cover that nasty hole though.

I'm a bit torn about how to do this. There's an irreglar bevel carved into the top just ahead of the hole, not big enough to be able to carve a plug to fit. And, the amount of wood added to the front of the cavity is limited.....The front 1/8" of the bridge can sit on the flat top, but behind that, the recess is needed for the underside of the mute. I think I'll laminate a thin sliver of hardwood (popsicle stick-sized) to glue vertically into the front edge of the cavity. That will form a dam so I can float the beveled portion with bondo. This is somewhat a cosmetic issue with very little strength needed, as the bridge plate is cast and strong enough that the other three sides will maintain the integrity.

So far, my concerns about intonation don't seem to be an issue. Mrasuring from the nut to the 12th fret, it's 16 9/16", so this is a 33 1/4" scale. With the bridge mounted to the original holes (and eventually it will come back a bit when straightened), I have 16 5/8" from the 12th fret to the reversed low E saddle, with some adjustment travel back still available. That seems to me as if it should work, although I might end up having to reverse the G saddle as well.

Seems like these things never come easy. Off to town to buy some Titebond and Bondo.....

[die Bullen]

I just started taking the strings off to change bridgeplates and found something that made me laugh.

If I needed confirmation that an FIYer worked on this bass, I just found it.

Having trouble getting a good closeup of this, but you get the idea. This is the tuner end of the G string

wow- pro job, huh?

[spellcaster]

You know, if I was really stuck at a gig, I I might do that...but I sure as heck wouldn't leave it like that.

The filler strip is glued in and seems to be fitting the bridge recesses well. I'll let it set up until tomorrow and then float-fill the bevel in front of it.

[spellcaster]

I've done a fill coat and will let it set up for 24 hours. It may need a finish coat tomorrow and then I'll prime it. I'll need to dowel closed the original bridge mounting holes after that and should be ready to do the bridge geometry and remount it by mid week. I'd like to be done with this part of the project before next weekend, as I expect my other parts orders will be here by then.

[spellcaster]

I had just set the bass aside so the bondo could cure when trouble came to the door. The owner of the LP Jr that I'm resurrecting arrived with the jig he promised me a month ago. It means that I need to set this project aside and go back to his guitar. I may try to sand this out tomorrow night and add the skin coat if it's required, but to some degree, this project is almost dead in the water till the guitar's done and the finish is started. Now, to revive my zombie LPJ thread......

[die Bullen]

oh no- the "cat came back".......

[spellcaster]

Yeah, the title of the LPJr thread "Ever wish something would just go away?" pretty much says it all.lol.

It's tough to wrap your head around something and then abruptly shift gears into a different project. I was just getting ready to rock on the bass project......

[spellcaster]

I received a couple of my parts orders today. The knob set I ordered is a vintage style and includes four full-size knobs plus one matching, but slightly smaller one. I think Rickenbacker actually uses it as a pickup blender. i've decided to go back to having individual volume and tone controls for each pickup and use the smaller control as the variable coil split for the neck pickup.

I also got the pickup surround(s) that I ordered for the neck pickup from Al Intesso at aiguitars. I had a brain fade when I placed the first order for a bezel for a Tele neck pickup. Just after I completed the transaction, I realized that I'd ordered the wrong thing. I then ordered a Strat-style bezel, thinking that the bigger cutout would solve the problem. It was only a couple of days ago that I suddenly realized that the mounting pattern was wrong. I looked back at aiguitars templates, and they don't offer one in a Tele bridge pickup configuration. Doh!

If I was working fulltime, I'd just order a Ric pickup and be done with it, but I need to find an economical alternative. One possibility would be to simply cut the black Artec (tele mount) rail into the pickguard and go with no bezel at all. Another possibility would be a white Artec rail that I could rob out of the Ratcaster, which would let me use the chrome Strat-style bezel. (i'm not convinced that a white pickup will look right). I'm really attracted to a vintage Univox pickup that's for sale on eBay right now, as well.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/230756221312?...84.m1423.l2649 I still have some time to mull this over since the project's on the back burner.

[spellcaster]

I unpacked the pickup trim rings I had ordered from aiguitars, and frankly, I'm less than impressed. Take a look at the oopsie where the mounting holes are drilled.



I'm not going to be able to use them on this bass anyway, but I doubt I'll be ordering anything else from aiguitars.

The pickup search continues. I looked at a new Gretsch bass pickup online last night that appeals to me....looks a lot like a toaster pickup from a distance, and I'm sure the quality's good.



One thing that's puzzling me is the underside of the pickup.....You can see it's got 12 screws and looks for all the world like a guitar humbucker. I posted an inquiry on GretschTalk but as usual, I got no responses. (This happens a lot over there.....might be time to register at The Gretsch Pages).



I also turned up something interesting in an online search last night.....Found a company called G&B Pickup Company that builds clones of toaster pickups and apparently they're quite reasonably priced. The link title comes up in an Asian language that doesn't translate, so it appears here as question marks....

??

I'm quite drawn to their Ric-clone toaster bass pickup.....



Unfortunately, my computer browser only translates some of the information, so I'm having trouble figuring out the price or how to order from them. Apparently, Eastwood sells some of their product, so I'll be looking into that this evening.

The search goes on......

[die Bullen]

I'm sure you'll find some good pickups for this baby!

How did the bondo dry up? I still think you should rout the edge for binding!

[spellcaster]

The bondo that I filled the cavity with has set up well. I'm waiting for better weather to sand it out.

As I mentioned before, I'll be doing a faux binding so it'll have the appearance of it. I don't own a suitable router to actually cut a channel into the body and finances won't permit buying one right now.

[etechstan]

You are really causing GAS for me to go out and rescue a basket case!!

[spellcaster]

Well, I'm sure the neighbours think I'm crazy. I was out on the deck in the dark sanding, and I've managed to smooth the face out. My first patch, in front of the bridge, turned out fine with one tiny spot that needs a second coat. The neck pickup rout that had been crudely plugged when I got the bass is a low spot. I'll probably mix up some bondo tomorrow night and fill it flush, and do a few small spots that are in need as well. That'll be cured up by the weekend and I'll do some more sanding and probably spray a guide coat afterward.

[die Bullen]

starting to look much better! That black finish was awful looking!