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Thread: All Key Approach

  1. #11
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by die Bullen View Post
    ...the more theory you understand, the deeper you delve into it.
    But that's the fun of it!
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  2. #12
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Also, the more theory you understand, the more you hear. And the faster you can learn songs. You quickly recognize common (even difficult) chord progressions. So rather than spending so much energy relearning the same chord progressions over and over, you can focus on learning the other aspects of the song. (Speaking from experience here.)
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  3. #13
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Here is an example - The Diatonic Cycle of 4ths

    A cycle of fourths means that you play a chord, count up four notes in the scale you are in, and play that chord, and repeat.
    Diatonic means that you are staying within the chords of the key.

    Am7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 Fmaj7 Bm7b5 E7 Am7

    It is simply the chord progression that dB listed above, but usually starting on C's relative minor (A), and substituting an E7 for the Em7.
    The E7 is the dominant 7 of Am, and we borrow it from the harmonized A harmonic minor scale.

    This common chord progression has been used in the following songs:

    Europa - Santana
    Still Got The Blues - Gary Moore
    Fly Me To The Moon - Frank Sinatra
    Black Orpheus (Manha De Carnival) - Luiz Bonfá
    I Will Survive - Gloria Gaynor
    Autumn Leaves - Nat King Cole (and others)
    Hello (bridge only) - Lionel Richie
    Sunny - Boney M

    - and countless others, although it can start from a different chord in the progression, but usually the Am or the Dm. And of course, it can be in any key. It may only play part of the progression. The progression might only happen for the A section or the B or C section of the song, or it may resolve differently in each section. I Will Survive uses an Esus to E7 for it's last two bars.

    My point is that once you familiarize yourself with this chord progression, you will hear a song and go, "Oh, there's that 'Diatonic Cycle of 4ths' again", just as you can hear a 12-bar blues, or you can hear that Sweet Home Alabama, Werewolves of London, and that Kid Rock are the same three chords.

    I have learned lots of Russian songs that have the cycle of 4ths.
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator die Bullen's Avatar
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    What is interesting is many people call this jazz music theory. In fact, the modes of the scales, etc. traces back hundreds of years to classical music (and are sometimes referred to as "church modes")

    You are 100% right DW about learning songs faster when you know this stuff. We have more than 250 songs of repertoire in my son's band. I am confined to reading chord names rather than memorizing the material because I don't have anywhere the recall my son does. But when you know that a ii V7 I is coming, you know exactly which pattern to follow. There is no time to be guessing where the next chord is a tempo.

  5. #15
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    I think jazz music theory might be correct if one is referring to the currents common names and chord spellings, such as the half-diminished circle with a strike through it. But you are correct, dB - a lot of it is just the same music theory that the big boys in classical were using. By the way, some of my favourite books on the subject were written in the 30s and 40s.

    But "music theory" applies to all music. Rock songs, pop songs - all those songs in the Axis of Awesome medley use I V vi IV, and those chords were in a lot of 12/8 songs in the 50s and 60s, although then the preferred order was I vi IV V, and sometimes ii (thanks for reminding me of the lower-case minor spelling) substituting the IV.

    And going back to Sweet Home Alabama, if I am working with a musician who knows theory, but is not familiar with that song, I can just tell him it's a 3-chord medium tempo rock song in D mixolydian and he will have a pretty good idea of what's coming. (Or I could tell him that it's just the V, IV and I of G, over and over. Some prefer to hear it that way.)

    I have a nice two-five lesson I will post when I get some time. Maybe I should be starting new threads for my various theory tangents.
    Last edited by doublewah; 02-27-2014 at 08:59 AM.
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  6. #16
    Super Moderator die Bullen's Avatar
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    What I don't quite understand is why so many guitar players eschew the theory? It isn't intended to be academic snobbery but rather an explanation as to why/ how things fit together (or don't)

    Yeah I guess we've moved way off the all key approach... But in a way it is all interconnected.

  7. #17
    Axe-honerated zontar's Avatar
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    I think it's a misconception of what theory is.
    They probably know more than they realize, and can figure some of it out with little effort, based on experience playing guitar.
    And while some gets a little complicated, it's not rocket science.
    I've been a pilgrim on this earth, since the day of my birth, I'm a long way from my home.

  8. #18
    Super Moderator die Bullen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zontar View Post
    I think it's a misconception of what theory is.
    They probably know more than they realize, and can figure some of it out with little effort, based on experience playing guitar.
    And while some gets a little complicated, it's not rocket science.
    very true. I also think many don't understand WHY theory might be able to help them overall as players

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