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Thread: So, I've been listening to a lot Rippingtons, Toto, etc

  1. #21
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Pentatonics as parent scales - 3

    In a similar way, the Major and Minor pentatonic scales can be looked at as parent scales for the Major and Minor blues scales.
    I am using different fingerings for this example. Do the same exercise as with the previous examples.

    C Major Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|-----------------5--
    D|-----------5--7-----
    A|--3--5--7-----------
    E|--------------------


    C major Blues Scale
    E|-----------------------
    B|-----------------------
    G|--------------------5--
    D|--------------5--7-----
    A|--3--5--6--7-----------
    E|-----------------------


    A Minor Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|--------------------
    D|--------------5--7--
    A|-----3--5--7--------
    E|--5-----------------


    A Minor Blues Scale
    E|-----------------------
    B|-----------------------
    G|-----------------------
    D|-----------------5--7--
    A|-----3--5--6--7--------
    E|--5--------------------
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  2. #22
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    By the way, when most guitar players say they play pentatonic scales, that is not really accurate. If you were to just play the 5-note Minor pentatonic scale over a blues progression, with no extra notes or slides or bends, it would sound pretty boring, pretty quick.

    All of the guitar players who have gotten well known and loved playing the "Minor pentatonic scale" have added extra notes, slides and bends to the Minor pentatonic scale.
    If you bend from the 4 to the 5, you have played the notes of the Minor blues scale, along with lots of microtones. That note halfway between the 4 and 5 is the #4 (or b5). That added note is what changes a Minor pentatonic scale to a Minor blues scale.

    Same thing with the Minor modes. If you add a B note to an A Minor pentatonic scale, you are now playing either a Dorian or Aeolian mode. Add an F and you are playing an Aeolian mode. Make that an F# and it is a Dorian mode. (Phrygian mode is not commonly used over an A blues because it has a Bb.)

    All of this applies to the Major pentatonic scale as well, such as in country licks and phrases that are based on the Major pentatonic scale.

    Chinese folk music uses pentatonic scales. American pop music does not.
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator die Bullen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    Is there a reason for the choice of colours?

    I'm thinking you should make a book of this. It might be a sellable and very useful teaching aid.
    I HAVE thought about making a book of this as a teaching aid- maybe we'll have to e-mail back and forth on this.

    The colours don't have any specific meaning except blue which is the root. Of course in my haste to snap the picture quick I broke even that convention. The smartest thing would be root one colour, 3,5 another and 2,4,6,7 the third colour

  4. #24
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by die Bullen View Post
    ...The smartest thing would be root one colour, 3,5 another and 2,4,6,7 the third colour
    Agreed.
    ..
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  5. #25
    Axe-honerated zontar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    By the way, when most guitar players say they play pentatonic scales, that is not really accurate. If you were to just play the 5-note Minor pentatonic scale over a blues progression, with no extra notes or slides or bends, it would sound pretty boring, pretty quick.

    All of the guitar players who have gotten well known and loved playing the "Minor pentatonic scale" have added extra notes, slides and bends to the Minor pentatonic scale.
    If you bend from the 4 to the 5, you have played the notes of the Minor blues scale, along with lots of microtones. That note halfway between the 4 and 5 is the #4 (or b5). That added note is what changes a Minor pentatonic scale to a Minor blues scale.

    Same thing with the Minor modes. If you add a B note to an A Minor pentatonic scale, you are now playing either a Dorian or Aeolian mode. Add an F and you are playing an Aeolian mode. Make that an F# and it is a Dorian mode. (Phrygian mode is not commonly used over an A blues because it has a Bb.)

    All of this applies to the Major pentatonic scale as well, such as in country licks and phrases that are based on the Major pentatonic scale.

    Chinese folk music uses pentatonic scales. American pop music does not.
    Think of the pentatonic scale as a starting point...
    I've been a pilgrim on this earth, since the day of my birth, I'm a long way from my home.

  6. #26
    Axetastic itsallintheblues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    Pentatonics as parent scales - 1

    The 3 modes below all contain the 5 notes of the Major pentatonic scale.
    Play the Major pentatonic scale, then play one of the modes. Go back and forth between the Major pentatonic scale and the mode.
    Spend at least a couple of minutes with this. Then do the same with the other 2 modes.

    C Major Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|--------------2--5--
    D|--------2--5--------
    A|--3--5--------------
    E|--------------------

    C Ionian Mode
    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|-----------------2--4--5--
    D|--------2--3--5-----------
    A|--3--5--------------------
    E|--------------------------

    C Mixolydian Mode
    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|-----------------2--3--5--
    D|--------2--3--5-----------
    A|--3--5--------------------
    E|--------------------------

    C Lydian Mode

    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|-----------------2--4--5--
    D|--------2--4--5-----------
    A|--3--5--------------------
    E|--------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    Pentatonics as parent scales - 2

    The 3 modes below all contain the 5 notes of the Minor pentatonic scale.
    Play the Minor pentatonic scale, then play one of the modes. Go back and forth between the Minor pentatonic scale and the mode.
    Spend at least a couple of minutes with this. Then do the same with the other 2 modes.

    C Minor Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|--------------3--5--
    D|--------3--5--------
    A|--3--6--------------
    E|--------------------

    C Dorian Mode
    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|-----------------2--3--5--
    D|-----------3--5-----------
    A|--3--5--6-----------------
    E|--------------------------

    C Aeolian Mode
    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|--------------------3--5--
    D|-----------3--5--6--------
    A|--3--5--6-----------------
    E|--------------------------

    C Phrygian Mode
    E|--------------------------
    B|--------------------------
    G|--------------------3--5--
    D|-----------3--5--6--------
    A|--3--4--6-----------------
    E|--------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    Pentatonics as parent scales - 3

    In a similar way, the Major and Minor pentatonic scales can be looked at as parent scales for the Major and Minor blues scales.
    I am using different fingerings for this example. Do the same exercise as with the previous examples.

    C Major Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|-----------------5--
    D|-----------5--7-----
    A|--3--5--7-----------
    E|--------------------


    C major Blues Scale
    E|-----------------------
    B|-----------------------
    G|--------------------5--
    D|--------------5--7-----
    A|--3--5--6--7-----------
    E|-----------------------


    A Minor Pentatonic
    E|--------------------
    B|--------------------
    G|--------------------
    D|--------------5--7--
    A|-----3--5--7--------
    E|--5-----------------


    A Minor Blues Scale
    E|-----------------------
    B|-----------------------
    G|-----------------------
    D|-----------------5--7--
    A|-----3--5--6--7--------
    E|--5--------------------
    DW,

    it made it easier for me to see this rather than having it written. I now find the correlation between all of these modes.

    There's countless information over here that I need to digest this over the week. great advices! Im grateful for you guys.

    yes, playing blues is great, but I need to diversify. when I started to get serious on playing the guitar, I didnt know what to do. Im stuck with the same old alternative rock tunes and solos. but when I started playing the blues, learning a lot from it, my playing quickly improved. so Im now doing the same thing, I feel stuck and I need to learn something new so I can improve and add on to what I know and be more versatile.

  7. #27
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsallintheblues View Post
    DW,

    it made it easier for me to see this rather than having it written. I now find the correlation between all of these modes.

    There's countless information over here that I need to digest this over the week. great advices! Im grateful for you guys.

    yes, playing blues is great, but I need to diversify. when I started to get serious on playing the guitar, I didnt know what to do. Im stuck with the same old alternative rock tunes and solos. but when I started playing the blues, learning a lot from it, my playing quickly improved. so Im now doing the same thing, I feel stuck and I need to learn something new so I can improve and add on to what I know and be more versatile.
    Thanks for the feedback, Blues. I am glad the information was useful. I will add more later in the week.

    And it is the same for me - when I feel stuck in a learning rut, I just explore new styles of music. Sometimes it is intentional, but usually it is a surprise - I hear something and go "What is THAT?!"
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  8. #28
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    I would like to make two points now, and I will elaborate on them in the future:

    1 - The 3 modes I showed earlier - they are kind of like the words we teach a child who is only starting to learn to talk. There are bigger words for the child to later learn, and there are more modes and scales to learn to play over a 2-5-1 chord progression. Some students complain about those 3 modes sounding unsophisticated. Well, they do, and that's the point. You need to learn to say "See Spot run" before you can say "I think your dog stole your hamburger and he ran into the neighbour's yard". Anyway, when they sound boring to you (while playing over the chords), AND when you can play them effortlessly, that is the time to start learning the other choices of scales and modes that apply.

    2 - Some jazz teachers (including Carol Kaye, if I remember correctly) do not use scales in their teaching. They prefer to teach arpeggios, and then use arpeggios (or partial arpeggios) and connecting notes to make melodies. I like to explore every avenue that I can find, and that I can understand.
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  9. #29
    Axetastic doublewah's Avatar
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    1 - Blues, let me know when you have spent some time with those three modes (Ionian, Dorian and Mixolydian) and are ready for more.
    I have some exercises and more stuff for you when you are ready.

    2 - Do you have an iPhone or iPad? Or Android?

    3 - Listen to this album. Listen to it a lot:
    I bought a relic'd guitar because I liked the way it sounded. Then I refinished it because I didn't like the way it looked.

  10. #30
    Axetastic itsallintheblues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublewah View Post
    1 - Blues, let me know when you have spent some time with those three modes (Ionian, Dorian and Mixolydian) and are ready for more.
    I have some exercises and more stuff for you when you are ready.

    2 - Do you have an iPhone or iPad? Or Android?

    3 - Listen to this album. Listen to it a lot:
    Thanks dW!

    Yes, Im still exploring what you and dB have posted here. a lot of info for a starting newb, but its great! I would need to digest this and have a feel for it.

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